------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 08:21:10 -0500
From: PWB
Subject: Hawaii Five-O
Morning, all,
I'm working on a grid that has BOOKEMDANO (10) in it, which I thought was correct, but a Google search gets 18,900
hits whereas BOOKEMDANNO (11) gets 34,700. None of the sources I could find were very convincing to me;
I'd feel a lot better if I could see the line as it appeared in the script, but no luck there, either. Luckily, my
matching theme entry can be either 10 or 11 letters long, but I'm not sure which to use.
Private replies are fine. Thanks for the time.
--PWB
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 10:10:49 -0500
From: KM
Subject: Hawaii Five-O
The cruciverb.com database has DANO as the answer for "Book 'em ___!"
several times, but all by one publisher. The same clue yields DANNO
fewer times but used by three publishers, including NYT and LAT.
The character's real name is Danny Williams and is listed as such on
websites such as www.tv.com. There is a section on this site where
people review particular episodes:
http://www.tv.com/hawaii-five-o/show/1277/reviews.ht
ml&review_id=59138&flag=1&order=
You'll notice that one person spells it Danno while the other spells it
Dano. This could be one of those cases where there is no real correct
answer. But if you're submitting to the NYT ot LAT, at least you could
refer to their previous usage.
--KM
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 07:54:49 -0800
From: BP
Subject: Hawaii Five-O
From my recollection, Steve-o was usually asking (or screaming) for one
person to be booked, so "Book 'im Dan(n)o" would be the quote if that's the
case.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 13:37:19 -0500
From: NH
Subject: Hawaii Five-O
Total Television by Alex McNeil is an extremely reliable reference book. I've yet to find an error in it.
And Total Television says it's DANO.
For Christmas I want a T-shirt that says GOOGLE SCHMOOGLE.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 13:55:50 -0500
From: MR
I was gonna say what NH said but he said it faster. And "Book 'em, Dano" (rather than "Book 'im,
Dano")
is how I've always seen it.
--MR
------------------------------Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 10:56:47 -0500
From: JP
from imdb.com:
Even today, more than twenty years after the program stopped production, it
is broadcast in syndication in markets all over the world. Its 'Book 'em,
Danno' catchphrase is still as much a part of our popular culture as that
famed line from another show of the same era: 'Beam me up, Scotty.'
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 09:55:27 -0600 (CST)
From: RH
Even the major TV reference books can't agree on a spelling.
"Total Television" by Alex McNeil spells it "Dano"
and "The Complete Directory to Prime Time Network and Cable TV
Shows" by Tim Brooks and Earle Marsh spell it "Danno."
Pick which ever reference suits your needs.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 11:10:08 -0500
From: NH
> from imdb.com:
Even today, more than twenty years after the program stopped production, it
is broadcast in syndication in markets all over the world. Its 'Book 'em,
Danno' catchphrase is still as much a part of our popular culture as that
famed line from another show of the same era: 'Beam me up, Scotty.'
Okay, but the line "Beam me up, Scotty" was never uttered on Star Trek. So I'd say the moral of this story
is that IMDB is not a reliable source of information. Total Television is.
--NH
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 11:41:52 -0500
From: NH
> Even the major TV reference books can't agree on a spelling.
"Total Television" by Alex McNeil spells it "Dano"
and "The Complete Directory to Prime Time Network and Cable TV
Shows" by Tim Brooks and Earle Marsh spell it "Danno."
Pick which ever reference suits your needs.
The latter also lists one of the stars of "The X-Files" as GILIAN Anderson and one of the characters on "The
Adventures of Superman" as Jimmy OLSON. I'll stick with Total Television.
--NH
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 11:53:52 -0500
From: DK
FWIW, James MacArthur's official fan club Web site and personal Web site
list it as Danno. If anybody ought to know, it's him.
--DK
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 09:37:24 -0800
From: RL
Ack! What's next? Clues like this?
"Five-Oh Assistant: Var."
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 07:48:56 -1000
From: GP
At 06:53 AM 11/21/2005, DK wrote:
>FWIW, James MacArthur's official fan club Web site and personal Web site
>list it as Danno. If anybody ought to know, it's him.
All of the references so far have at least a small possibility for
error. What you want is an unimpeachable source. List Jerome
Coopersmith. He wrote for Hawaii 5-0 for six years, and the title of his
memoirs is "Book 'em Danno!"
--GP
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 13:01:34 -0500
From: KM
I get what NH is saying about Total Television. I have heard nothing
but good things about it. Still, I have to wonder if this is one of
these situations where there is no perfectly right answer, simply
because of a lack of documentation that makes it "official" (for
example, a press release from the television studio that produced the
show). The NYT has seen fit to use DANNO, as has the LAT. CrosSynergy
has mostly used DANO but did use DANNO once. I assume they all consulted
their respective trusted references, and these produced differing
results because ... yes, that's right ... there is no perfectly right
answer.
By the way, it would seem that Total Television covers programming only
to late 1995 or early 1996. I wonder whether there are plans for an updated
edition.
--KM
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 10:01:01 -0800
From: RL
My last post was a little silly, so here's a serious one. There's certainly
a chance that both spellings are acceptable. It's a nickname, after all.
Would I have done that if I were the writer of Hawaii 5-0? No, but I wasn't
the writer. Even Jerome Coopersmith is only telling you that DANNO is
correct. He's not telling you DANO is also wrong, at least not on the cover
(I suppose he could inside the book).
I would probably run screaming and come up with something from Gilligan's
Island instead.
-RL
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 13:06:07 -0500
From: DK
That may be true, but I do think this a case where there is a more correct
answer: Danno. The other may have gained acceptance through ignorance, but
if sources associated with the show, including a writer and the man who
played the character, say it's Danno, that's what I'd go with. I have to
assume they saw it print any number of times from any number of sources
during the years the show was on the air.
--DK
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 18:10:34 +0000
From: VF
At the risk of imposing too much logic on this discussion, let's analyze:
Neither DANNO nor DANO should be at the top of anyone's word list - and obvioulsy, they are not in this
case, as someone is trying to use BOOKEMDANNO.
If one must use DANO independently, one can clue that to the well-known soap opera actress, Linda Dano. See
http://www.filmbug.com/db/108570
Since the character's primary name on the show was DANNY, I would tend to think that his "O-nickname" would be DANNO
- really it should be DANNY-O, but that's another topic.
I was not a close follower of the show, but I'd take issue with the notion that the phrase in question
should be "Book 'im..." I can see it being either or both of "Book him..." and "Book 'em..."
Hope this helps but am not holding my breath.
--VF
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 08:42:24 -1000
From: GP
At 08:01 AM 11/21/2005, RL wrote:
>[Hawaii 5-0 writer] Jerome Coopersmith is only telling you that DANNO is
>correct. He's not telling you DANO is also wrong
I'm sorry, but I don't understand this statement one bit. The script is
the ultimate resource. If the man who wrote the script says he wrote
DANNO, then DANO is incorrect. There is no possibility that sources
specifying DANO are anything but typos.
--GP
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 12:53:24 -0600
From: VF
Oh yeah, in addition to that logic thing, I have a book entitled "The
Complete Directory to Prime Time Network and Cable Shows 1946 - Present" (c)
2003 by Tim Brooks and Earle Marsh (which I bought at the suggestion of
Nancy Schuster, I think), and it says: "At the end of the following season
[referring to '78-'79], James MacArthur decided he had had enough of playing
McGarrett's top assistant, Danny 'Danno' Williams, and he too left..."
--VF
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 13:15:30 -0600
From: JH
Subject: WILL SHORTZ ON TALK OF THE NATION TODAY
FYI: My husband just emailed me that Wil Shortz will be on NPR's "Talk
of the Nation" today. Probably later in the hour, around 1:30 to 1:40
CST.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 12:17:47 -0800
From: RL
DK wrote <<That may be true...>>
I didn't say anything was true. I said "There's certainly a chance...".
Since nobody has (yet) produced a definitive answer, there are three
possibilities, just given these two spellings (excluding, for example,
DANNY-O, which could be pronounced "DAN-OH").
DANO is right, DANNO is wrong (seems unlikely, given the evidence)
DANNO is right, DANO is wrong (possible)
Both DANNO and DANO are right (possible)
GP wrote <<If the man who wrote the script says he wrote
DANNO, then DANO is incorrect...>>
But the man who wrote the script did NOT say that. First off, he was only
one writer. He used DANNO in the title of his book. And he certainly didn't
say that DANO is incorrect. Maybe he made some definitive statement inside
the book, but I haven't read it and I'm not going to speculate.
Given the evidence of the book and James MacArthur's Web site, I would say
it is seems certain that DANNO is correct. But I have seen no evidence that
says DANO is wrong and it is possible they are both right. If we were to
vote, I'd vote that only DANNO is correct, but facts aren't governed by
voting <note: avoiding opportunity to make a political comment here>.
--RL
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 14:21:56 -0600
From: VF
RL and GP,
You are both excused from jury duty.
--VF
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 13:00:47 -0800
From: CS
RL -
I respectfully disagree. I think GP HAS produced a definitive answer.
If the man who wrote the script used "Danno" in his title, that
certainly is the name of the character. It's ludicrous to think that he
either misspelled it in the title or spelled it one way in the title and
another in the body of the book. As for him only being one writer, trust
me (I'm a TV writer), writers on a series do not get to choose how they
spell the names of their main characters. Everyone spells it the same way.
And as for the writer not saying "Dano" was incorrect, I'm having a bit
of trouble following you here. First you write "And he certainly didn't
say that DANO is incorrect", and then you say that you haven't read the
book. That aside, I was taught in elementary school that 2+2=4. The
teacher did not take the time to tell me that 2+2=1,457 is incorrect,
but it certainly is.
Kind regards,
--CS
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 13:14:09 -0800
From: RL
This isn't jury duty, so I'll respond.
DANNO or DANO was given to us as a nickname for the character. Real people's
nicknames sometimes have more than one spelling and this is one of the
nicknames that might have more than one spelling. As far as I know, we never
saw it written in the show. Many people seem to think that DANO is the (or
a) correct spelling. It's certainly possible that they are all wrong. Given
the evidence, I even happen to think they're all wrong. But that's just my
opinion and I am not going to tell you that I know they're wrong. The facts,
as we are aware of them, don't support that. Even if we all agree, this isn't a democracy -- we don't get to vote on facts.
Unfortunately, this is not an easily verifiable fact like whether Detroit is
east of Atlanta or how many dollars I have in my pocket. There are only a
few people that know the answer definitively and none of them are on the
list. CS, if you've got connections ...
--RL.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 16:19:38 EST
From: SB
"Danno" ... "Dano"
My two cents. All I can afford. I'm a crossword constructor.
Taking in all that has been discussed here, when it comes to using this word in a puzzle, for me the debate is over. DANNO is it. Especially in a theme
entry. Which is right, which is almost right, is fine for just plain
discussion, but we're talking crossword entry. If you use DANO in the "Hawaii
Five-O" context, you have what I call a door-to-door puzzle.
That is, on the date your puzzle sees daylight, be prepared to go door to
door throughout its distribution area -- knock, knock -- to explain your
justification.
--SB
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 16:21:58 -0500
From: DK
> DANNO or DANO was given to us as a nickname for the character. Real people's
> nicknames sometimes have more than one spelling and this is one of the
> nicknames that might have more than one spelling. >
This is true. My daughter's nickname is Beanie, and conceivably you could spell it Beany, Beani, Beanee,
Beeny, etc. But we don't; we spell it Beanie. That's how I look at the evidence from Coopersmith and
MacArthur; the chosen spelling is Danno. The writers or creators could have spelled it Dano, and that would
have an acceptable variation, but they chose not to. That means Dano is not correct, just an alternative
that might have been.
--DK
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 16:26:29 EST
From: T.O.
Hello all,
I'd still like to know if KAM FONG AS CHIN HO (15 letters, mind you) could
be used in the puzzle. No debates, either, as this is printed in the credits -
come to think of it, has anyone tried to get a visual on an episode to see
if the offending name is indeed "written" in the title credits?
Divertingly,
--T.O.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 17:15:14
From: HB
Wouldn't DANO be pronounced DAY-NO? Cf. Dano-Norwegian. I've been trying
to track down the correct pronunciation of Royal Dano, which I've always
thought rhymed with DRANO, but can't find anything on the internet to
support that.
Denny (Note how the 2 n's shorten the vowel)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 17:20:26
From: DK
You would think, following conventional rules. But actress Linda Dano
pronounces her name DANNO.
--DK
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 17:24:41
From: MR
Okay, I'm a believer -- it's BOOK EM DANNO.
If I need DANO I can always use TV actress Linda DANO or movie actor Royal
DANO.
--MR
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 14:23:06
From: MW
At 02:15 PM, Monday, 11/21/2005, HB wrote:
>Wouldn't DANO be pronounced DAY-NO? Cf. Dano-Norwegian. I've been trying
>to track down the correct pronunciation of Royal Dano, which I've always
>thought rhymed with DRANO, but can't find anything on the internet to
>support that.
>Denny (Note how the 2 n's shorten the vowel)
Note that DRANO is always spelled with a horizontal bar (indicating
long vowel).
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 16:32:57
From: NJ
Subject: The Da..o Problem
Dear Crossword Connstructers,
I recenntly learnned there is ann onngoinng argumennt regardinng the spellinng of my nnicknname. This is
painnfully troublinng to me as I donn't wannt to inncite differennces amonngst friennds.
I hope it ennds soonn.
Sinncerely, D. Williams
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 17:36:42
From: JD
At 01:42 PM 11/21/2005, you wrote:
>At 08:01 AM 11/21/2005, RL wrote:
>>[Hawaii 5-0 writer] Jerome Coopersmith is only telling you that DANNO is
>>correct. He's not telling you DANO is also wrong
>
>I'm sorry, but I don't understand this statement one bit. The script is the ultimate resource. If the man
who wrote the script says he wrote DANNO, then DANO is incorrect. There is no possibility that sources
specifying DANO are anything but typos.
>
>--GP
Unless, of course, others of the show's scribes spelled it DANO in their scripts.
In "Taxi" scripts, you can find Alex's last name spelled RIEGER and REIGER (mostly RIEGER, which is thus
accepted as the "correct" spelling, in spite of what McNeil says).
I wonder how many "Seinfeld" scripts have YADA YADA YADA and which have YADDA YADDA YADDA.
--JD
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 14:40:27
From: RL
To the tune of ...
You spell Dano and I spell Danno
You spell Potatoe and I spell Potato
Dano Danno Potatoe Potato
Let's call the whole thing off
Hmmm.. I dunno (I mean duno)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 15:15:40
From: BP
Subject: The Da..o Problem
> You spell Dano and I spell Danno
> You spell Potatoe and I spell Potato
> Dano Danno Potatoe Potato
> Let's call the whole thing off
>
> Hmmm.. I dunno (I mean duno)
>
Yes, let's talk Qaddafi/Khadaffy now. No, let's not.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 15:30:57
From: CS
Subject: Booking Danno
RL -
I have a connection of sorts, an internet connection. You might want to
take a look here
http://www.hawaiifive0.org/bookem.shtml
for a little Hawaiian punch.
Regards,
--CS
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 16:54:51
From: ER
Subject: Booking Danno
On 21 Nov 2005, at 4:30 PM, CS wrote:
> I have a connection of sorts, an internet connection. You might
> want to take a look here
>
> http://www.hawaiifive0.org/bookem.shtml
>
> for a little Hawaiian punch.
Arrgghh! The book designer doesn't know the difference between an
apostrophe and an opening single quotation mark????
-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*?
--ER
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 16:10:26
From: CS
Subject: Booking Danno
True, but you digress... :-)
Regards,
--CS
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 19:12:50
From: BO
Subject: Booking Danno
On 11/21/05, ER wrote:
> Arrgghh! The book designer doesn't know the difference between an
> apostrophe and an opening single quotation mark????
Are you sure it's not an `okina?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okina
--BO
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 16:14:12
From: MC
Subject: Booking Danno
On 21 Nov 2005 at 15:30, CS wrote:
> RL -
>
> I have a connection of sorts, an internet connection. You might want
> to take a look here
>
> http://www.hawaiifive0.org/bookem.shtml
>
> for a little Hawaiian punch.
Yes, it looks like an actual book cover, but note at the end
that it says this article is an excerpt from a memoir-in-progress. It hasn't actually been published, as far as I can
see on Amazon, and this excerpt contains various serious
errors.
He gets both parts of Khigh Dhiegh's name wrong, rendering it
as "Kheigh Diegh"--easy mistakes to make with that name, but
still, we're talking about the extent of his accuracy and
authenticity. France Nuyen becomes Frances Nuyen. He's
inconsistent even about the name of his own show, calling
it "Hawaii 5-O" or just "5-O", when it was actually "Hawaii
Five-O." Is it the Muehibach Hotel or the Muehlbach Hotel? Etc.
Given that this is a memoir-in-progress that apparently hasn't
been proofread or fact-checked, his "Danno" version may or may
not be accurate. Unfortunately, the "Book 'em" phrase doesn't
seem to have ever been used as the title of an episode. So is
that little Hawaiian punch a knockout? Not to me.
--MC
------------------------------
Message: 39
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 16:15:07
From: RL
Subject: Booking Danno
Try this excerpt, from the Playboy Interview with James Coopersmith:
Q. So, why did you call Dan Williams "Danno?" And how do you spell it
anyway?
A. Well, it started with Jack Lord, who wanted to give the character a
nickname. At first, it was Danny-oh, but the producers didn't like that, so
he switched to Dan-oh. We usually spelled it D-A-N-N-O but we never did
decide on an official spelling -- it depended on who was writing the script.
--RL
OK, I'll confess. I made that up. But is there a single person here who
knows definitively what James Coopersmith or anyone else would say if they
were asked? You don't, so stop pretending you do.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 16:18:33
From: CS
Subject: Booking Danno
First of all, there's no need to be snotty, I've been very polite with
you, despite your questionable "logic". Second of all, since Coopersmith
didn't create the show, he seems an unlikely final source. And thirdly,
considering your attitude, I'm done with this. Spell it however you want.
--CS
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 16:29:29
From: CS
Subject: Booking Danno
Well, your last sentence definitely sounded like it was directed toward
me personally. [Insert handshake here] Danno it is, then.
--CS
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 16:34:14
From: RL
Subject: Booking Danno
I wasn't trying to be snotty or insulting and I certainly wasn't trying to
single CS out. Sorry about that.
[handshake]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 16:38:08
From: MW
Subject: The Da..o Problem
At 03:15 PM, Monday, 11/21/2005, BP wrote:
>>You spell Dano and I spell Danno
>>You spell Potatoe and I spell Potato
>>Dano Danno Potatoe Potato
>>Let's call the whole thing off
>>Hmmm.. I dunno (I mean duno)
>Yes, let's talk Qaddafi/Khadaffy now. No, let's not.
Hey, don't forget Gadafi.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 22:13:01 -0600
From: EB
Subject: Phonics (was Booking Danno)
On Nov 21, 2005, at 4:15 PM, HB wrote:
>
> Denny (Note how the 2 n's shorten the vowel)
I certainly see how the two n's shorten the vowel, but try telling that
to the people who pronounce "betta" the same as "beta".
Oh, the calamity,
--EB
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 10:36:22 -0600
From: Johnny
let me know
Subject: Danno v. Dano request
November 25, 2005
KM and all members:
As some of you might know, I have a few pages on my Web site about crossword
puzzles, and I've been waiting for a controversy like DANNO versus DANO to
demonstrate just how hard constructors try to get it right, to demonstrate
just how much puzzle players may trust their eyes. I want to express that
if such a trivial point is so important, imagine how much more reliable the
less trivial facts are.
What I'd like to do is copy this entire Cruciverb-l thread from beginning to
end and post it on a new Web page that would be linked to from some sort of
statement to the effect that crossword puzzles, at least the high-quality
ones, contain so few errors. I'm writing to see whether anyone objects to
such a plan.
I would remove any e-mail addresses for security reasons and I would remove
certain other header information because it's uninteresting. The result
would look something like what you'll find temporarily at
barelybad.com/erase_temp_test_ DAWT htm.
Does any member of Cru-l object to my publishing such a page as it appears
in part at that URL? Does it violate a copyright anyone wishes to enforce?
Does it show a name you don't want shown? Is the idea disagreeable to you
for any other reason? If so, please let me know.
KM, I want to ask you specifically. If you object for any reason that's
good enough for me.
--Johnny
P.S. It doesn't seem like there should be any controversy about whether it's
Book 'em or Book 'im. When Steve-o wanted Dan-O to arrest more than one
person, the sounds he made would have meant book them. When he wanted just
one guy arrested, with those identical sounds he would have meant book him
(which I think would never have been spelled 'im at all, so I also think
BOOKHIMDANO would be justifiable if the clue were written right).
But what I really want to know now is whether a situation arose in any
episode of Hawaai/Five=Oh in which the only bookee-to-be was a female.
BOOKERDANNO and BOOKHERDANO open up more crossing possibilities for the
original poster.
BOOKEMDANO (10)
BOOKERDANO (10)
BOOKIMDANO (10)
BOOKEMDANNO (11)
BOOKERDANNO (11)
BOOKIMDANNO (11)
BOOKHERDANO (11)
BOOKHIMDANO (11)
BOOKHERDANNO (12)
BOOKHIMDANNO (12)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 18:17:39 -0500
From: PWB
Subject: Danno v. Dano request
Hi, there. Hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving complete with lots of
turkey or the tofu equivalent.
I'm fascinated that my innocuous question about Hawaii Five-Oh has inspired
such speculation, investigation, and now possible publication. Thanks to
all who replied both directly and to the list; I ended up going with
BOOKEMDANNO, in case you're wondering. In the end, I let precedent be the
deciding factor (I sent it to an editor who has previously used the double-N
spelling). I feel quite confident in that decision, even though it meant
reworking almost half the puzzle. Three cheers for the clue database (and
three more for the new solver asst)!
In short, I'm glad I asked. I'm especially glad that I'm able to consult
such a critical, literate, reference-laden, and (for the most part) lighthearted group of individuals. Crosswords are meant to be fun, imo, but that
doesn't mean they shouldn't also be dead accurate.
Happy holidays to all!
--PWB |